Comments on: Myth Busting: Debunking the “WWII Ended The Great Depression” myth. http://mugsysrapsheet.com/2009/02/09/myth-busting-blasting-the-wwii-ended-the-great-depression-myth/ Recording history for those who seek to rewrite it. Mon, 06 Feb 2012 16:27:15 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: Mugsy http://mugsysrapsheet.com/2009/02/09/myth-busting-blasting-the-wwii-ended-the-great-depression-myth/comment-page-1/#comment-303 Mugsy Sat, 25 Jun 2011 01:31:33 +0000 http://mugsysrapsheet.com/?p=434#comment-303 What a coincidence! Why *just* last week I was saying the same thing about Jimmy Carter and the "Reagan Recovery". In case you can't tell, that's sarcasm. You might want to double-check the subtitle of this blog: "Recording history for those who seek to rewrite it." Wally, I give you points for chutzpah, but please don't try and claim that the reversal in unemployment after Hoover left office was Hoover's doing. Under Hoover, unemployment went from 3.3% to 24.9%, and he didn't institute any *new* policies just before he left for which you can credit the turn-around. You might want to review FDR's "First 100 Days" for the policies that directly affected unemployment and the economy: (http://www.u-s-history.com/pages/h1851.html). While Hoover did raise taxes his final year in office, his *first* response to the '29 crash was to CUT taxes. And the result? Unemployment did not go down. It went up. WAY up. Only *half* of the "National Recovery Act" was ruled unconstitutional: "that it violated the 'Separation of Powers' clause. But the WPA jobs program itself continued unchanged. Similarly, only the manner in which the "Agricultural Adjustment Act" was being paid for was ruled unconstitutional, not the Act itself. The funding mechanism for the AAA was changed and the program resumed the following year. Don't try and suggest the programs *themselves* were ruled unconstitutional (like they were deemed "too Socialist"), because they weren't. Like John McCain or Newt Gingrich denying things they said on National television, Conservatives have yet to figure out the miracle of film/video tape/YouTube. Don't make claims easily debunked with a two-second Google search. And THAT'S why we have "Mugsy's Rap Sheet" to "Record history for Conservative nitwits that try to rewrite it." What a coincidence! Why *just* last week I was saying the same thing about Jimmy Carter and the “Reagan Recovery”.

In case you can’t tell, that’s sarcasm. You might want to double-check the subtitle of this blog:
“Recording history for those who seek to rewrite it.”

Wally, I give you points for chutzpah, but please don’t try and claim that the reversal in unemployment after Hoover left office was Hoover’s doing. Under Hoover, unemployment went from 3.3% to 24.9%, and he didn’t institute any *new* policies just before he left for which you can credit the turn-around. You might want to review FDR’s “First 100 Days” for the policies that directly affected unemployment and the economy: (http://www.u-s-history.com/pages/h1851.html).

While Hoover did raise taxes his final year in office, his *first* response to the ’29 crash was to CUT taxes. And the result? Unemployment did not go down. It went up. WAY up.

Only *half* of the “National Recovery Act” was ruled unconstitutional: “that it violated the ‘Separation of Powers’ clause. But the WPA jobs program itself continued unchanged. Similarly, only the manner in which the “Agricultural Adjustment Act” was being paid for was ruled unconstitutional, not the Act itself. The funding mechanism for the AAA was changed and the program resumed the following year. Don’t try and suggest the programs *themselves* were ruled unconstitutional (like they were deemed “too Socialist”), because they weren’t.

Like John McCain or Newt Gingrich denying things they said on National television, Conservatives have yet to figure out the miracle of film/video tape/YouTube. Don’t make claims easily debunked with a two-second Google search.

And THAT’S why we have “Mugsy’s Rap Sheet” to “Record history for Conservative nitwits that try to rewrite it.”

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]]> By: wallyb http://mugsysrapsheet.com/2009/02/09/myth-busting-blasting-the-wwii-ended-the-great-depression-myth/comment-page-1/#comment-302 wallyb Fri, 24 Jun 2011 19:27:02 +0000 http://mugsysrapsheet.com/?p=434#comment-302 FDR entered office with the economy finally on the mend after Hoover's big spending/taxing turned the 1929 crash into the great drepession. Love the laughable Hoover was lazzie-faire myth. Unemployment had already peaked at 25 percent and was on its way down by the time FDR took office in March of 1933. FDR's idiot new deal programs and hording of gold delayed the recovery for nearly 3 years while creating a massive debt and screwing with the constitution as only Lincoln and Wilson had before. It was only after the supreme court ruled the horrible NRA and AAA programs unconstitutional in June of 1935 and January of 1936 - along with 4 harmful new deal programs - that the economy could finally gain breathing room for recovery. Even then it was an artificial recovery based on worthless wpa and such jobs and projects that added no real value or sustainable employment so naturally the economy tanked again. I'm not impressed with lowering unemployment from 24 percent to a still horrid 14 percent while continuing harmful economic conditions. We had quicker gdp growth and better job recovery after our 1876, 1892 and 1920 depressions than the 1936-37 recovery and unlike with the New Deal those recoveries were sustained and led to prosperity. Revisionists like to blame a tiny 1-percent gdp spending cut in government outlays for the Roosevelt recession of 1937-38. But the down turn had already began months before the budget plan. The idiot Wagoner Act that was wrongly ruled constitutional in 1936 caused the same wage-hike/lack of productivity issue that helped surge us into the depression in 1930-31 under Hoover. The market became very fragile due to uncertainty caused by pathetic regulations and what was going on in Europe. And of course the gold currency issue was a major problem, as was the Federal Reserve doubling reserve requirments that killed lending while interest rates sky rocketed. We still spent more in 1937 than we did any year before 1936, spending just wasn't working. Lets not forget a huge tax hike as a result of the first social security tax also came with the 1937 budget, which hurt the economy. As for WW2 - it only temporarily halted the unemployment problem while creating the military industrial complex at a great cost in blood. We surged off the technology of the war and military industrial complex - like pretty much every time in history following major military build-ups/conflicts - but we didn't recover until record spending cuts. Unemployment shot back up to 9-10 percent immediately following the war and it took the record spending cuts from 1946-48, going well beyond the WW2 roll back, along with the end to most of FDRs restrictions on businesses and a minor tax cut to get the private sector going and the economy booming. Of course, we also benefited greatly from our competition being in rubbles after the war, which greatly inflated our boom. FDR entered office with the economy finally on the mend after Hoover’s big spending/taxing turned the 1929 crash into the great drepession. Love the laughable Hoover was lazzie-faire myth. Unemployment had already peaked at 25 percent and was on its way down by the time FDR took office in March of 1933. FDR’s idiot new deal programs and hording of gold delayed the recovery for nearly 3 years while creating a massive debt and screwing with the constitution as only Lincoln and Wilson had before. It was only after the supreme court ruled the horrible NRA and AAA programs unconstitutional in June of 1935 and January of 1936 – along with 4 harmful new deal programs – that the economy could finally gain breathing room for recovery. Even then it was an artificial recovery based on worthless wpa and such jobs and projects that added no real value or sustainable employment so naturally the economy tanked again. I’m not impressed with lowering unemployment from 24 percent to a still horrid 14 percent while continuing harmful economic conditions. We had quicker gdp growth and better job recovery after our 1876, 1892 and 1920 depressions than the 1936-37 recovery and unlike with the New Deal those recoveries were sustained and led to prosperity. Revisionists like to blame a tiny 1-percent gdp spending cut in government outlays for the Roosevelt recession of 1937-38. But the down turn had already began months before the budget plan. The idiot Wagoner Act that was wrongly ruled constitutional in 1936 caused the same wage-hike/lack of productivity issue that helped surge us into the depression in 1930-31 under Hoover. The market became very fragile due to uncertainty caused by pathetic regulations and what was going on in Europe. And of course the gold currency issue was a major problem, as was the Federal Reserve doubling reserve requirments that killed lending while interest rates sky rocketed. We still spent more in 1937 than we did any year before 1936, spending just wasn’t working. Lets not forget a huge tax hike as a result of the first social security tax also came with the 1937 budget, which hurt the economy. As for WW2 – it only temporarily halted the unemployment problem while creating the military industrial complex at a great cost in blood. We surged off the technology of the war and military industrial complex – like pretty much every time in history following major military build-ups/conflicts – but we didn’t recover until record spending cuts. Unemployment shot back up to 9-10 percent immediately following the war and it took the record spending cuts from 1946-48, going well beyond the WW2 roll back, along with the end to most of FDRs restrictions on businesses and a minor tax cut to get the private sector going and the economy booming. Of course, we also benefited greatly from our competition being in rubbles after the war, which greatly inflated our boom.

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]]> By: Mugsy http://mugsysrapsheet.com/2009/02/09/myth-busting-blasting-the-wwii-ended-the-great-depression-myth/comment-page-1/#comment-104 Mugsy Thu, 12 Feb 2009 04:18:09 +0000 http://mugsysrapsheet.com/?p=434#comment-104 I found some additional insight with some more descriptive graphs at the following link to a more detailed report: The "FDR Failed" myth http://www.ourfuture.org/blog-entry/2009020603/fdr-failed-myth I found some additional insight with some more descriptive graphs at the following link to a more detailed report:

The “FDR Failed” myth
http://www.ourfuture.org/blog-entry/2009020603/fdr-failed-myth

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]]> By: Grant in Texas http://mugsysrapsheet.com/2009/02/09/myth-busting-blasting-the-wwii-ended-the-great-depression-myth/comment-page-1/#comment-103 Grant in Texas Mon, 09 Feb 2009 23:29:06 +0000 http://mugsysrapsheet.com/?p=434#comment-103 Interesting opinion today in the Atlanta paper. So who has been the big spenders??? It's been the Republicans. http://www.ajc.com/opinion/content/opinion/bookman/stories/2009/02/09/bookmaned_0209_2DOT.html Interesting opinion today in the Atlanta paper. So who has been the big spenders??? It’s been the Republicans.

http://www.ajc.com/opinion/content/opinion/bookman/stories/2009/02/09/bookmaned_0209_2DOT.html

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]]> By: Grant in Texas http://mugsysrapsheet.com/2009/02/09/myth-busting-blasting-the-wwii-ended-the-great-depression-myth/comment-page-1/#comment-102 Grant in Texas Mon, 09 Feb 2009 22:39:55 +0000 http://mugsysrapsheet.com/?p=434#comment-102 The Cato Institute's full page ad in my <i>Houston Chronicle</i> today can be seen in the pdf file linked below promoting the popular Republican meme of late that it was WWII's military spending that did the job. Cato also implies that ONLY "tax cuts" will do the job! http://www.cato.org/special/stimulus09/cato_stimulus.pdf It appears some of the academic "experts" thought they had signed onto something worded a bit differently! CATO dishonesty? http://www.buzzflash.com/articles/analysis/603 The Cato Institute’s full page ad in my Houston Chronicle today can be seen in the pdf file linked below promoting the popular Republican meme of late that it was WWII’s military spending that did the job. Cato also implies that ONLY “tax cuts” will do the job!

http://www.cato.org/special/stimulus09/cato_stimulus.pdf

It appears some of the academic “experts” thought they had signed onto something worded a bit differently! CATO dishonesty?

http://www.buzzflash.com/articles/analysis/603

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]]> By: Grant in Texas http://mugsysrapsheet.com/2009/02/09/myth-busting-blasting-the-wwii-ended-the-great-depression-myth/comment-page-1/#comment-101 Grant in Texas Mon, 09 Feb 2009 18:04:15 +0000 http://mugsysrapsheet.com/?p=434#comment-101 Reading my morning Houston Chronicle, I see the CATO Institute was able to find a couple hundred economists (out of thousands) from our nation's colleges to protest the Obama "stimulus" saying that FDR's programs didn't bring us out of the Great Depression, that WWII did. But his PWA, CWA, and CCC did put millions into jobs that paid for shelter and food and were great safety nets. The reich loves to deride the National Endowment for the Arts (NEA) with Pat Buchanan recently reviving their favorite whipping boy, Robert Mapplethorpe who has been DEAD for 20 years and wouldn't be eligible for any "stimulus" anyway. Plus he is only ONE artist out of tens of thousands. FDR put over 5000 artists, sculptors to work creating art for our nation's public spaces....city halls, postoffices, train stations, plazas, etc. But to a Republican putting artists to work is "pork". Elkhart, Indiana where Obama is speaking now is the RV capital of our nation for sure, which may not come back like it was in the time of cheap gas, but the second largest industry in Elkhart is Conn, Selmer, Ludwig, among other manufacturers there who make musical instruments. Keeping bands in our schools, supporting symphonies, etc. ALSO puts people to work. Most musicians never get invited to the Grammy Awards and they struggle daily to survive playing in small house bands and smaller symphonies. Already, tours are being canceled, attendance to such are hurting too as folks don't have expendable income for entertainment or sports events. Reading my morning Houston Chronicle, I see the CATO Institute was able to find a couple hundred economists (out of thousands) from our nation’s colleges to protest the Obama “stimulus” saying that FDR’s programs didn’t bring us out of the Great Depression, that WWII did. But his PWA, CWA, and CCC did put millions into jobs that paid for shelter and food and were great safety nets.

The reich loves to deride the National Endowment for the Arts (NEA) with Pat Buchanan recently reviving their favorite whipping boy, Robert Mapplethorpe who has been DEAD for 20 years and wouldn’t be eligible for any “stimulus” anyway. Plus he is only ONE artist out of tens of
thousands. FDR put over 5000 artists, sculptors to work creating art for our nation’s public spaces….city halls, postoffices, train
stations, plazas, etc. But to a Republican putting artists to work is “pork”.

Elkhart, Indiana where Obama is speaking now is the RV capital of our nation for sure, which may not come back like it was in the time of
cheap gas, but the second largest industry in Elkhart is Conn, Selmer, Ludwig, among other manufacturers there who make musical instruments.
Keeping bands in our schools, supporting symphonies, etc. ALSO puts people to work. Most musicians never get invited to the Grammy Awards
and they struggle daily to survive playing in small house bands and smaller symphonies. Already, tours are being canceled, attendance to
such are hurting too as folks don’t have expendable income for entertainment or sports events.

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