If it all weren’t so sad, it’d be funny. On second thought, this IS funny.
April 18, 2011
There are so many other topics I considered writing about this week. Topic Idea #1: Under GOP rule, the state of Arizona is rapidly becoming the worlds largest insane asylum. First it was the racist/xenophobic “Papers please” anti-immigration bill, followed by the AZ-GOP “Death Panel” that decided a new for-profit, privately run prison system was more important than providing mortally ill patients with life-saving organ transplants. And now last week, the AZ legislature passed the nations first “birther bill” that mandates Presidential candidates to either “prove” they meet the Constitutional birthright qualifications by providing a “long-form birth certificate” (it wasn’t that long ago Republicans were dreaming of a “President Ah’nuld”), or, lacking a Birth Certificate, a “circumcision certificate” from your Moyle (not a legal document). You think I’m kidding? (Update: In a flash of sanity, AZ Gov. Brewer vetoed the bill, calling it “a bridge too far.” – 4/18) I planned on pointing out the incredible potential for abuse here should some partisan hack be put in charge of deciding whether to obstruct the opposing Party’s candidate from appearing on the ballot simply by challenging their citizenship. The Federal government already verifies candidates’ citizenship. Try to imagine if all 50 states did this, each conducting their own individual background checks. Lecture me again, Republicans, about “government waste, fraud & abuse”?
Then there’s the pathetic whining on the Right last week over President Obama daring to criticize the insane economic plan of Wunderkind Paul Ryan. These are the same people that have been slamming President Obama mercilessly 24/7 over everything from where he was born to his NCAA picks. And he dare criticize their policies? President Obama probably instead should of pointed out how much Paul Ryan resembles Mickey Mouse:
The third topic-candidate on my mind was: gas prices… more specifically, how rampant, unrestricted speculation in the Oil Commodities Market on Wall Street is almost single-handedly responsible for the sudden spike in gas prices… which have NOTHING to do with Libya, since Saudi Arabia agreed to INCREASE production by ~12% in the wake of the rebellion. But ThinkProgress and Ed Shultz have already done an excellent job of covering this subject.
And as if all that weren’t enough, Rupert Murdoch’s British tabloid, “News of the World”, was caught wiretapping the phones of celebrities living in the UK. Clearly, Rupert learned from the best (on how to) snoop on the rest.
But in the end, it was a “debate” between me and one of the most obtuse Republican ideologues I’ve ever encountered on YouTube that made the cut. I post the following exchange (unedited) that I’ve been carrying on for the past week, not so much for the obvious laugh-value or to brag about my debating skill, so much as to point out just how insane the Far Right is and why it always seems impossible to reach any sort of rational compromise.
Two months ago I ruffled a few feathers responding to a video (that a commenter to one of my own videos *demanded* I see) showing a string of Democrats, from President Clinton on down, all claiming that Saddam had WMD’s. This was not news to me, but clearly my visitor saw it as “damning” footage of Left-wing hypocrisy. I pointed out how the video doesn’t include a single clip from ’99-2000, after Clinton bombed Iraq twice searching for those mythical WMD’s and found nothing, because at that point they realized claims of Saddam’s WMD’s was a PNAC fantasy. It wasn’t until Bush took office in 2001 that the WMD claims resurfaced. I naturally was attacked and called names by people with the debating skills of a third-grader. The debate “ended” about a week ago when I pointed out that “Clinton never actually called for *invading* Iraq over those WMD’s the Right kept insisting were there.”
About a week ago, I felt the following comment demanded a response, resulting in the following (informative and unintentionally hilarious) exchange (wingnut in red; my replies in blue. Emphasis added by me.):
Bush was right. He said after democracy takes hold in Iraq, it would spread throughout the region… and that’s what’s happening right now.
NAGGERNUTZ 1 week ago@NAGGERNUTZ Eight years after Iraq, in a country over 1,000 miles away (Tunisia), protests against the government in the midst of a global economic recession, all happened because they see “Democracy flourishing in Iraq”? Why not credit the fall of the Berlin Wall while you’re at it?
BI30 1 week ago@BI30 – Bush was still right.
NAGGERNUTZ 1 week ago@NAGGERNUTZ Iraq has NOTHING to do with what is going on the Northern Africa and the lower Middle East right now.
BI30 1 week ago@BI30 – Tell me something I don’t know. Bush was STILL right. Sorry it chafes your ass, but it’s true.
Bush said “once democracy is established in Iraq, it will spread throughout the region”. It’s happening right now. Maybe Iraq didn’t have anything to do with it, but it’s STILL happening… so… BUSH WAS RIGHT.
NAGGERNUTZ 1 week ago@NAGGERNUTZ If you credit Carter with the fall of the Berlin Wall, then your argument holds. But in fact, these protests *are taking place in Iraq right now too*. Bush’s argument was that the sight of a flourishing Democracy in Iraq would encourage people in other nations to follow suit wanting the same thing. If “Iraq” is the reason why these nations are protesting, why is *Iraq* protesting? Because they’ve seen how good Democracy is? Democracy is not “flourishing” in Iraq. Bush was WRONG.
BI30 1 week ago@BI30 – Stop spinning. Nobody said anything about democracy flourishing. The protests in Iraq have nothing to do with democracy. The protests are over corruption, unemployment, the lack of basic services and restrictions on freedom of expression (CNN April 8, 2011). They’re protesting just like any other democracy. Iraqi’s are able to elect their own representatives for the first time in history… and it’s spreading throughout the region, just as Bush said it would. BUSH WAS RIGHT.
NAGGERNUTZ 1 week ago@NAGGERNUTZ I’m not sure you read your own words as you type. “No one said anything about Democracy Flourishing”? Google the phrase along with the words “President Bush” and tell me what you get (I direct you to January of 2007). You are absolutely CORRECT that the protests in Iraq are jobs, corruption and lack of services. But THAT is why they are/were protesting in Egypt, Tunisia, Libya and everywhere else. NOT because they’ve been enticed by what they see happening in Iraq.
BI30 6 days ago@BI30 – I’m not real sure you get it either. You see, facts are funny things. They are what they are. They are the truth. Spin whatever reason you want… whatever makes you sleep better. The fact remains, Bush said that once democracy was established in Iraq, it would spread throughout the region. And guess what? It’s by your own admission spreading throughout the region. Do you hate democracy or what? Or is it the fact that Bush said it and you hate Bush? Bush was right.
NAGGERNUTZ 6 days ago@NAGGERNUTZ This is insanity. You are ACTUALLY trying to argue that “Democracy in Iraq”… such that it is, and put in place nearly five years ago… is the sudden impetus for the protests currently going on in Egypt and the surrounding region NOW. And when you concede that the people in Iraq are protesting as well, Iraq somehow exists in a vacuum, unrelated to events in those other countries. Explain to me exactly HOW Iraq is the basis of these protests?
BI30 5 days ago@BI30 – I’m not arguing anything, you are. You’re getting off subject, my friend. The subject is… and it was my initial comment that you replied to…
“George Bush said that once democracy was established in Iraq, it would spread throughout the region”. Guess what? It’s spreading throughout the region. Syria, Egypt, Libya, Tunisia, Yemen and there’s even unrest in Qatar, Iran and Saudi Arabia. Stop trying to get off on a hissy tangent. Put your pants on and man up or stop responding. Simple.
NAGGERNUTZ 5 days ago@NAGGERNUTZ I asked one simple question and you couldn’t answer it. “How is Iraq influencing these protests?”
The fact these protests are taking place years after Bush made his claim, doesn’t mean Iraq is the influence behind them. Bush said Democracy in Iraq “would spread throughout the region”, meaning other nations would follow Iraq’s lead. Just because nations are currently protesting in no proof they have anything to do with Iraq. You can’t say “Bush was right” simply because of sequence.
BI30 5 days ago@BI30 – Wow… unbelievable. If I say it’s going to snow tomorrow… and it does snow, could you say I was right? Pretty simple. I’m sorry if all the middle eastern countries didn’t collapse the next day after Iraq did. In the real world, 5 years is nothing. I know you hate George Bush, but the man made a prediction and it came true. Now go away. If you can’t handle the truth, then don’t reply to peoples’ comments. Maybe these other countries want to be able to elect their own representatives?
NAGGERNUTZ 5 days ago@NAGGERNUTZ Let me put it this way: If I told someone “If I put this Welcome Mat on my doorstep, someone will knock on my door.” Two years later, my landlord knocks on my door asking why I haven’t paid my rent.
Was I right? Was my putting that doormat out responsible for “someone” knocking on my door two years later for a totally unrelated reason?
BI30 5 days ago@BI30 – OMG!!! Are you serious? No wait… you’re paranoid schizophrenic, right? Look, It’s obvious that you’re a rabid, liberal Bush hater. Fine. Hate away. But what the man said was correct. Do you suppose Bush was privy to intel that you and I aren’t? Do you think it’s possible that Bush knew ahead of time that these countries would be doing what they’re doing now? Do you think maybe Obama knows too? Has the CIA ever conspired to take down a foreign government? Go away please.
NAGGERNUTZ 4 days ago@NAGGERNUTZ You are REALLY grasping at straws now, suggesting that you/Bush were right because “maybe” Bush had some intel six years ago that foresaw what would happen in 2011?
You don’t get it. Your “snow prediction” example lacked any “cause & effect”. Bush might as well have said, “If I snap my fingers, Democracy will eventually break out in the Middle East”. Just because something happens, doesn’t prove “cause & effect”.
Clearly, you have no knowledge of WHAT sparked these recent protests.
BI30 4 days ago@BI30 – Are you back again? No more welcome mat stories? If Obama had said the same thing, you’d be singing his praises. Now, for the forth time… please… go away.
NAGGERNUTZ 4 days ago@NAGGERNUTZ What a wuss. Until you can answer simple questions, I’m not going anywhere.
BI30 4 days ago@BI30 – OK… you wait. Hold your breath while you’re at it.
FACTS:
Fact 1 – George Bush Said “after democracy takes hold in Iraq, it will spread throughout the region”
Fact 2 – It happened.
Fact 3 – George Bush was right.
I’m curious… have you even watched this video?
NAGGERNUTZ 3 days ago
@NAGGERNUTZ You can’t dismiss “cause & effect” simply because you find it inconvenient.
FACT – Bush said “IF we do X, Y will happen.”
X did not cause Y. Bush was wrong.
BI30 2 days ago@BI30 – By the same token, you can’t dismiss truth just because you’re a liberal troll and the truth hurts.
In comparison, Bush was a much better president than Obama… and he was right. Now watch the video.
NAGGERNUTZ 2 days ago@NAGGERNUTZ I’ll ask my simple question again. Let’s see if you answer it:
If Bush had said, “If I snap my fingers, Democracy will break out in the Middle East”, would you still say “Bush was right”?
BI30 2 days ago@BI30 – Only if he snapped his fingers and it happened. You aren’t too stable are you? You seem to be digging like crazy to find any way to discredit George Bush. Actually, having Bush back in the white house right about now, would be a godsend. There is NOTHING that George Bush did that Obama hasn’t. Jimmy Carter was our worst president ever, but he’s in second place now.
NAGGERNUTZ 1 day ago@NAGGERNUTZ Just establishing your level of intellectual (dis)honesty. By that same standard, I can say with absolute authority that aliens will land on the White House lawn, scientists will find a cure for cancer, and the island of Japan will sink into the ocean.
All three statements meet your criteria of 1) I said it. 2) No time frame, so if it takes a billion years, I predicted it, ergo, 3) I am right.
BTW: Check your math on Carter. Both Bushes and Ford created fewer jobs… COMBINED.
BI30 1 day ago@BI30 – Well, I guess it’s better to be right and not know it, than to know it and argue to the contrary. Congratulations.
You are good for a daily laugh though.
There are 52 people who were held hostage in Iran for 444 days by Islamic extremists… and released exactly 20 minutes after Ronald Reagan was sworn in, that might disagree with you on Carter. That’s all the math I need to know on Carter. Did I mention gas lines that stretched for miles?
NAGGERNUTZ 1 day ago@NAGGERNUTZ Since I’m old enough to remember Carter (and Ford), I’d remind you that the gas lines began under Ford. They returned during the Russian oil embargo in response to their aiding Iran. Waiting until Regan was sworn in was Iran’s “slap in the face” to Carter. So unless you are on the side of Iran here, I don’t think the timing of the hostages release is a criticism of Carter.
But I’ve already established your level of intellectual (dis)honesty. By YOUR standards, YES, Bush “was right”.
BI30 1 day ago@BI30 – I’m not only old enough to remember them, I’m old enough to have actually been able to wipe my own ass at the time… unless you’re not telling the truth about your age… which is quite possible considering how you’ve nit picked and spun every fact so far. The gas lines started under Carter. I know because I was actually driving at the time and sat in the gas lines. Oh, so Carter was such a great president that’s why our hostages rotted for 444 days? Weakness is good? I get it now.
NAGGERNUTZ 1 day ago@NAGGERNUTZ I’m not about to get into another absurd side argument with you over something easily provable by a Google search. And a Bush apologist such as yourself certainly shouldn’t start criticizing presidents over their ability to “get the job done” within a respectable amount of time.
BI30 1 day ago@BI30 – Your entire dialog has been a side argument. Why stop now? I’m sensing some anger. I never apologized for Bush. I merely stated a fact. Sorry if democracy didn’t come to the middle east the day after Bush made the statement. Kind-of a lame argument, but then again, what else is new?
1st Corinthians 13:11
NAGGERNUTZ 1 day ago@NAGGERNUTZ I never strayed from the topic. I probably shouldn’t have said “apologist” since you clearly believe he has nothing to apologize for, Fine. Absurd. But fine.
The “timing” of “Democracy breaking out” in Northern Africa today is… by your own admission… irrelevant since (by your own admission) Bush had nothing to do with it, and cause & effect is irrelevant.
And I wouldn’t be quoting 1Cor13:11, since you clearly haven’t yet reached stage two.
BI30 1 day ago@BI30 – Oh how your comment just drips with hypocrisy! You can’t get past Bush, when Obama has done or is doing the very same. Obama has as much to apologize for in just 2 years compared to Bush’s 8 years. Otherwise explain what Bush did that Obama hasn’t.
I never said Bush had anything to do with democracy “breaking out”… you did. I merely stated that Bush said that after democracy is established in Iraq, it would spread throughout the region, which it did. So… again, Bush was right.
NAGGERNUTZ 20 hours ago@NAGGERNUTZ You’ll have to point out my hypocrisy, because I never once mentioned Obama.
You “never said Bush had anything to do with democracy ‘breaking out'”, and in the same sentence conclude “after democracy is established in Iraq, it would spread throughout the region, which it did. So… again, Bush was right.”
The fact that you can’t see you are trying to credit Bush for the current protests makes this a pointless argument.
BI30 10 hours ago@BI30 – Oh and by-the-way… since you’ve brought your hypocrisy to light, I was wondering. You moonbats just love high taxes and government that spends us into oblivion. When you go to have your income tax returns prepared, do you refuse all deductions so you can pay the highest amount possible? Do you look for ways to send as much money to Washington that you can? I was just wondering if you were one of those “put your money where your mouth is” moonbats, or do you just talk a good game?
NAGGERNUTZ 20 hours ago@NAGGERNUTZ Regarding taxes: I’m not in the Top 2%.
BI30 10 hours ago@BI30 – OMG!!! Your hypocrisy is NOT MENTIONING OBAMA! You bash Bush, while letting Obama off the hook for doing the very same things Bush did. I’m now convinced that you’re not mentally stable.
“The fact that you can’t see you are trying to credit Bush for the current protests makes this a pointless argument.” If it’s a pointless argument, then why did you start this dialog? There’s some more hypocrisy. hypocrisy.
NAGGERNUTZ 5 hours ago@NAGGERNUTZ You’re assuming I’m an Obama supporter simply because I’m a Democrat. That’s a Republican thing. Republicans believe you must agree 100% with everything the GOP does or else call yourself “an Independent”. I’m an adult. I can still call myself a Democrat w/o agreeing with everything my Party does.
You should probably buy yourself a dictionary and look up the word “hypocrisy”. I never defended Obama for doing the things Bush did. I’m not surprised you can’t tell the difference.
BI30 2 hours ago@BI30 – Oh, I get it… (to liberals) only the rich should be patriotic? You love those high taxes to spend us into oblivion… so long as it’s somebody else’s money! So your only a real liberal here on YouTube? Gee, there for a second, I thought you were one of those “put my money where my mouth is” liberals. You’re just a troll after all.
NAGGERNUTZ 4 hours ago@NAGGERNUTZ Briefly, the rich use more government services, but who pays when you give them a tax cut? “Spending us into oblivion?” Two wars and Medicare Part-D, all unpaid for and all passed by a Republican Congress under a Republican President. The “Debt Ceiling” that Cantor, Ryan, Pence and Boehner are all whining about now, they ALL voted to raise FIVE TIMES IN EIGHT YEARS under Bush. And you walk to call ME a hypocrite?
BI30 1 hour ago@BI30 – uh huh… just a troll. You got yourself into something that you can’t get yourself out of, so now you’re running for the hills. You get credit for at least finally admitting that Obama isn’t worth arguing over. You lose points for jumping on Bush. There’s the hypocrisy. I wonder if 2 years ago you were singing the same tune.
NAGGERNUTZ 37 minutes ago@NAGGERNUTZ Clearly, you can’t carry on a discussion w/o devolving into juvenile ad hominem attacks. I’m not “running for the hills” by refusing to defend Obama simply because you believe that’s the job of anyone that calls themselves a Democrat.
You claim to be older than me, but every one of your posts so far has been a childish example of pathetic name calling.
What was it you quoted? 1 Cor 13:11?
BI30 1 minute ago@BI30 – That’s a hot one! The rich use more government services? Please. I’d love to hear what services the rich use. The top 2% of this country pay 40%, so when do you end the punishment for those who took the risks and built something? Where’s the incentive to succeed? Stop bashing Bush about wars. Anyone who had 3rd grade history knows that almost every major war that this country has been involved in was started by democrats. If you want intelligent conversation, why not try it yourself?
NAGGERNUTZ 29 minutes ago@NAGGERNUTZ The cost of prosecuting the average teenage punk for B&E or the idiot that robs a 7-11 is nothing compared to prosecuting white collar criminals with million-dollar lawyers. They use the courts to protect patent rights/infringements, our schools provide them with an educated workforce, more cops to protect their expensive homes and businesses, roads to deliver customer and employees, ad infinitum.
Welfare for the poor doesn’t amount to a ROUNDING ERROR compared to CORPORATE welfare.
A brief summary for those of you that lack my tolerance level for such insanity: “Bush was right” when he predicted that the invasion of Iraq would spread Democracy throughout the Middle East, EVEN after admitting that what is going on right now in Northern Africa “has nothing to do with Iraq”. And I’m a hypocrite for not criticizing President Obama… whom I obviously must totally agree with on everything because I call myself “a Democrat” (you’ve got to admire GOP Party-discipline. If you don’t absolutely agree 100% on everything the GOP wants/does, you’re not a Republican, you’re an “Independent”). The “fact” that Bush said Democracy in Iraq would “spread throughout the region”, and years later, people (not in the region) are seeking Democracy for reasons having nothing to do with Iraq, makes Bush “right”… either that, or psychic. I’m not sure which. My disingenuous debating buddy tried to credit Bush with recent protests. I called him on it, and his response was to deny that’s what he meant (while repeatedly making the case for it.) Do you agree? Why “brag” about Bush being “right”, if Bush’s actions had nothing to do with what’s happening? Somehow, I don’t get the feeling this guy was praising Bush’s amazing powers of prognostication, nor making the case that Bush was a lucky guesser.
And people wonder why the two sides can’t seem to agree on anything.
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April 18, 2011
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Posted in: Middle East, Politics, Rants, Right-wing Facism, Right-Wing Insanity
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